Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137910] |
Wed, 13 December 2017 19:40  |
Jorge
Messages: 20 Registered: December 2010 Location: United States
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Just want to know if anyone out there has experience running kerio connect for more than 300 accounts, it seems to me that ever since we went over 300 accounts the services is really bad really really slow... outlook (with outlook connector) remains unresponsive for a long time and more users complaint about the same issue.
We are running:
Windows Server 2012
16 cpus
32gb of ram
2.5tb of storage
on a VMWARE stack.
Kerio version 9.2.5 patch 3
I am just thinking maybe its time to move out of kerio?
Or what its wrong...
[Updated on: Wed, 13 December 2017 19:45] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137924 is a reply to message #137922] |
Thu, 14 December 2017 18:53   |
Bud Durland
Messages: 586 Registered: December 2013 Location: Plattsburgh, NY
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I have 350+ users on Kerio 9.2, in a VMWare environment. Having done the transition a couple years ago, I can confirm that performance gets much better if you use Linux on the server. We are using Debian, but I don't think the flavor of Linux used makes much difference. I can second the other recommendations:
- CPUs -- you don't need more than four, and probably 2 is sufficient
- RAM -- 32gb may be more than needed, but no harm to keep it there
- DISK -- you definitely want the fastest disks you can afford.
- FOLDERS -- encourage user to not have more than about 8,000 messages per folder.
Also, the workstation configuration can have an effect on performance. The Kerio offline connector does caching, each user has a copy of their entire message store on their local hard disks. We've found that 8GB of RAM, and a local SSD greatly improves perceived performance.
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137927 is a reply to message #137920] |
Fri, 15 December 2017 00:00   |
Jorge
Messages: 20 Registered: December 2010 Location: United States
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Hi Guys thank you for your answers.
I Read a bit of CPU commitment but still confused about it...
what if I create a new vmware machine with the vmware installation from KERIO's website ( i think its linux base) and give it 6vCPUs and 16gb of RAM and 2TB of storage.
My SAN is a HP LeftHand P4330 24tb raw 24 hp disk running at 7.2K rpms
I don't think I can convince management to deplot a new SSD SAN at the moment...
How would you deploy a server for 350+ users and growing? with tmy current hardware... you input is well appreciated, thank you again!
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137941 is a reply to message #137927] |
Fri, 15 December 2017 18:02   |
bm
Messages: 57 Registered: July 2008
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I'm using Kerio Connect 9.2.5 patch 3 (3336) with 330 users on OS Debian GNU/Linux 8.9, x86_64 in VMWare 6.0 enviroment.
90% of all clients are using Mail.app on MacOS 10.9-.10.11, other clients with OS Window 7 Pro are using Outlook 2010 with Offline Connector on PC Dell OptiPlex 7010 with 240GB SSD and 8GB RAM.
My HW configuration is pretty weak, but everything work like a charm:
CPU: 4vCPU (avg daily usage 5-15%)
RAM: 16GB RAM (avg daily usage 15-30%)
Storage: Local RAID5 (without SSD cache) on Dell PowerEdge R520
[Updated on: Fri, 15 December 2017 18:11] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137946 is a reply to message #137941] |
Sat, 16 December 2017 00:29   |
Jorge
Messages: 20 Registered: December 2010 Location: United States
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bm wrote on Fri, 15 December 2017 09:02I'm using Kerio Connect 9.2.5 patch 3 (3336) with 330 users on OS Debian GNU/Linux 8.9, x86_64 in VMWare 6.0 enviroment.
90% of all clients are using Mail.app on MacOS 10.9-.10.11, other clients with OS Window 7 Pro are using Outlook 2010 with Offline Connector on PC Dell OptiPlex 7010 with 240GB SSD and 8GB RAM.
My HW configuration is pretty weak, but everything work like a charm:
CPU: 4vCPU (avg daily usage 5-15%)
RAM: 16GB RAM (avg daily usage 15-30%)
Storage: Local RAID5 (without SSD cache) on Dell PowerEdge R520
Did you use the VMware image? or the installation package for debian to install kerio?
-Thank you for your answer.
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137948 is a reply to message #137927] |
Sat, 16 December 2017 14:28   |
Bud Durland
Messages: 586 Registered: December 2013 Location: Plattsburgh, NY
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Jorge wrote on Thu, 14 December 2017 18:00
what if I create a new vmware machine with the vmware installation from KERIO's website ( i think its linux base) and give it 6vCPUs and 16gb of RAM and 2TB of storage.
My SAN is a HP LeftHand P4330 24tb raw 24 hp disk running at 7.2K rpms
I would install Linux & use the Linux installer for Kerio Connect, rather than the VMWare appliance that Kerio offers. The appliance (which is debian based, last I knew) is a very 'bare bones' version of Linux, and I found that when I wanted to add any tools or features, it was a struggle. If you and your team have limited skill and experience managing Linux, installing a "full" Linux like Debian gives you some GUI tools, and much better choices around the machine's configuration -- disk sizes, network configuration, etc.
The problem with configuring too many CPUs on the VM boils down to something like this: if the VM doesn't actually need the CPUs, the system and the hypervisor (VMWare) spend more time deciding which CPU to use than actually running the system. I run mine on 2 vCPUs, and the CPU utilization rarely goes about 25%.
As an aside, we installed Samba on our to make access to the mail store a little easier. We used that and ROBOCOPY to move the mail store from the Windows server to the new Linux server. Also, be sure to make a separate virtual disk for the mail store. Install Linux in a small (40GB or so) disk, then add a 2TB one to the VM.
Hope this helps
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #137952 is a reply to message #137927] |
Sun, 17 December 2017 10:12   |
matti763
Messages: 27 Registered: February 2006
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Jorge wrote on Fri, 15 December 2017 01:00what if I create a new vmware machine with the vmware installation from KERIO's website ( i think its linux base) and give it 6vCPUs and 16gb of RAM and 2TB of storage. My SAN is a HP LeftHand P4330 24tb raw 24 hp disk running at 7.2K rpms
I would recommend to find out why your current setup is slow or at least, try to measure which part of your infrastructure is the bottleneck. If there is for example some issue with SAN, installing a new VM does not really help.
Can you provide data from Server 2012 Resource Monitor and disk queue from there? If queue is more than 1, then OS cannot write/read disk as fast as it wants.
Can you provide ESXi performance data from storage path? There should be measurements about write latency and read latency.
And can you run test that you shutdown VM, edit ammount of vCPU to 2 and then start VM.
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #138001 is a reply to message #137948] |
Thu, 21 December 2017 17:24   |
Jorge
Messages: 20 Registered: December 2010 Location: United States
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Bud Durland wrote on Sat, 16 December 2017 05:28Jorge wrote on Thu, 14 December 2017 18:00
what if I create a new vmware machine with the vmware installation from KERIO's website ( i think its linux base) and give it 6vCPUs and 16gb of RAM and 2TB of storage.
My SAN is a HP LeftHand P4330 24tb raw 24 hp disk running at 7.2K rpms
I would install Linux & use the Linux installer for Kerio Connect, rather than the VMWare appliance that Kerio offers. The appliance (which is debian based, last I knew) is a very 'bare bones' version of Linux, and I found that when I wanted to add any tools or features, it was a struggle. If you and your team have limited skill and experience managing Linux, installing a "full" Linux like Debian gives you some GUI tools, and much better choices around the machine's configuration -- disk sizes, network configuration, etc.
The problem with configuring too many CPUs on the VM boils down to something like this: if the VM doesn't actually need the CPUs, the system and the hypervisor (VMWare) spend more time deciding which CPU to use than actually running the system. I run mine on 2 vCPUs, and the CPU utilization rarely goes about 25%.
As an aside, we installed Samba on our to make access to the mail store a little easier. We used that and ROBOCOPY to move the mail store from the Windows server to the new Linux server. Also, be sure to make a separate virtual disk for the mail store. Install Linux in a small (40GB or so) disk, then add a 2TB one to the VM.
Hope this helps
Thank you for your time and for your answer I will definitely try all of this.
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #138002 is a reply to message #137952] |
Thu, 21 December 2017 18:07   |
Jorge
Messages: 20 Registered: December 2010 Location: United States
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[img]./fa/4775/0/[/img]matti763 wrote on Sun, 17 December 2017 01:12Jorge wrote on Fri, 15 December 2017 01:00what if I create a new vmware machine with the vmware installation from KERIO's website ( i think its linux base) and give it 6vCPUs and 16gb of RAM and 2TB of storage. My SAN is a HP LeftHand P4330 24tb raw 24 hp disk running at 7.2K rpms
I would recommend to find out why your current setup is slow or at least, try to measure which part of your infrastructure is the bottleneck. If there is for example some issue with SAN, installing a new VM does not really help.
Can you provide data from Server 2012 Resource Monitor and disk queue from there? If queue is more than 1, then OS cannot write/read disk as fast as it wants.
Can you provide ESXi performance data from storage path? There should be measurements about write latency and read latency.
And can you run test that you shutdown VM, edit ammount of vCPU to 2 and then start VM.
You are right.
From the resource monitors disk queue length for disk D: goes from 8.00 to 20.35
I made the mistake of creating only 1 lun for C: and D: - its a raid5 I think on new server i will use raid10 to speed this up and use full/fat provisioning.
but the disk queue length for C: is always at 0
I added an email of the datastore from vmware.
Thank you for your time and help!
[img]./fa/4775/0/[/img]
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #138048 is a reply to message #138005] |
Wed, 03 January 2018 00:24   |
Jorge
Messages: 20 Registered: December 2010 Location: United States
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Happy new year Guys!!! and thank you for all your answers and support.
I have one more question hehe if we move to Linux Redhat can I just copy and paste all the Mail storage? are the files the same?
and do you have any other tips on this windows to Linux migration?
Thank you again!
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Re: Is Kerio capable to run over 350 users? [message #138055 is a reply to message #138048] |
Wed, 03 January 2018 14:14   |
Bud Durland
Messages: 586 Registered: December 2013 Location: Plattsburgh, NY
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Depending on your mail store size and tolerance for downtime, you might want to use the officially documented method. If not, it is basically a copy/paste, and editing the mailserver.cfg file for OS specific settings. In our Windows to linux move, I mounted the old (windows) mail store via NFS, and used rsync to make an initial copy to the new Linux server (it ran for almost 40 hours). Then I shutdown the windows server, did a 'catch up' copy, and brought up the Linux server. other than having to rebuild a few indexes, it worked well.
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